Ep 20: The power of sharing stories with Emily Rockit

Show notes.

Emily Rockit is one hell of a storyteller.

In this episode, she shares her stories about navigating well-being, grappling with loss and the rollercoaster that is the music industry.

Along the way, we unpack the power of connection, the magic of storytelling and that all-too-familiar wrestling match with imposter syndrome.

Em also opens up about writing a book designed to empower indie artists, sharing hard-earned lessons from her own journey.

We cover…

health, wellness, recovery, personal stories, substance abuse, grief, music, mental health, self-discovery, imposter syndrome, social media, storytelling, music industry, authenticity, imposter syndrome, success, writing, healing, self-sabotage, new beginnings

Transcript

Rick And Emily (00:02.317)

Rocket. Hi, welcome the podcast. Hello Rick, nice to see you. We had a bit of fun getting here didn't we? We eventually got to the couch. Yes, a couple of cancellations. A of false starts on both ends. Yeah, Last week was funny for me because we went to, we're going to be Tuesday then we went Thursday. By lunchtime Thursday I was like I don't have the capacity to do this and I was thinking about today

It's really interesting for me to actually voice that rather than push through and do the thing. So I'm a bit proud of myself. Well, I'm glad you did. And I'm glad that my cancellation gave you the space to feel like you could. yeah. Or even. So thanks. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I like to start this podcast with a bit of a check in. So.

If you would take a breath and just take a moment, how are you feeling right now, physically? How are you feeling mentally? How are you feeling emotionally?

Yeah, look, I feel pretty good today. I'm a little tired. didn't, I only slept six hours last night, but I can survive on that these days. I still feel okay. Physically, yeah, mentally I'm feeling pretty positive. I am a little stretched at the moment. I've got a lot on my plate. So mentally I'm always kind of juggling a few balls in the air, I suppose.

So yeah, there's always that, the mental load is pretty high. Emotionally, yeah, I'm feeling a little sensitive perhaps with some stuff that's going on right now, but it's okay. It's kind of, it's been there a while. So it's something that just sort of sits there. It's not like an intense emotion. It's just kind of cruising along with me like a suitcase that I take everywhere. four out of 10 kind of thing. Yeah.

Rick And Emily (02:05.4)

Something like that. Cool. I want to ask you questions about all those check-ins, but I'm not. Let's hear about you. Yeah. Physically, I actually feel really good. This year, I've made a commitment to look after my health. And yesterday, I went to a naturopath and got some tests done and got some tonics and got some advice around...

just health in general, movement and food and all the rest of it. And because I used to have a gym, I also had a story that I could always fix myself and that spending money on it was a waste. my body is, well, my body's appreciating it, but I think more my mind and my heart are like, go you for spending money on yourself in a health capacity, because it's not an area that I normally do.

I am a massive fan of mentors and coaches and generally, know, these days I only really invest in, in business coaches and life kind of coaching and that sort of thing. But there was for a period of time where I spent an enormous amount of money on my health and I will never regret that. Yeah. So my body's feeling good because of that.

It's pretty funny because it's day one of the new protocol. So I'm like, look at me go. I've done everything I need to today. Mentally, I feel pretty clear. I think there's some similarities and parallels with you around like there's a lot of life admin-y balls in the air of just trying not to drop them at the moment. So just spent the last couple of hours doing life admin-y stuff.

trying to get things done by certain times. So just kind of settling from that. Emotionally...

Rick And Emily (04:04.856)

I'm a bit in love at the moment. yeah. That's nice. Just the stress of buying a house and Joel and I were only together for a year and just being here for three weeks now being like, this is what we aim for and what we work for. And it's just nice to have that emotion attached to that. Just in time for Valentine's Day. Well, it's funny because this weekend, I'm...

I go up to Brisbane once a month to study my therapy and it always falls on a bad day. Last year it started on my birthday. This year it's on Valentine's Day. So Friday night I'm gonna be studying and Joe and Finn are gonna be hanging out in Brisbane and then we're gonna go for dinner. that'll be nice. Yeah. Not exactly the most romantic scenario. I'm at therapy school and they're hanging out in Brisbane.

But yeah, but you'll get to go out to dinner in the city where there's a lot of and it'll be later and be a bit of an adventure. Definitely will be that. And that's kind of the whole idea. So yeah. So overall, I'm actually feeling pretty good. I'm happy to notice that because last year was a bit shitty. So how the hell do we know each other? Well, I'm going to tell you a funny story.

This scares me little bit. I don't know if you remember this but we, our sons both went to the same primary school and they both started in kindergarten the same year 2015. Chillingham? Chillingham? No, South East Side, Moomba. kindergarten, yeah, Gotcha. And I have this one memory of you. no. Which is really funny. It's no, it's nothing bad, don't worry.

I just remember you coming up to me one day and we sort of knew each other but not well you know but you said I had a dream about you last night and I said okay what was it and you said that I was like a rock star you said you're a rock star I think I was performing live on stage or something and I was like my god yeah I didn't even remember that and I that stuck with me for ages because at the time I didn't really feel like a rock star

Rick And Emily (06:24.546)

I mean, I have the spirit of a rock star. definitely do. I'm going to own that right now. But, at the time I felt anything but, and so I was like, I thought it was really nice. You know, there was nothing weird about you saying that. Like it wasn't, it wasn't coming across as like creepy. It wasn't creepy. wasn't weird. wasn't sleazy. Nothing like that. But it just stuck with me because I think at that particular time in my life, I felt so rock bottom and so low and it was nice.

to, for someone to just like, for me to appear in someone's dream as a rock star. meant a lot. Yeah. That's funny. Isn't it interesting when other people see parts of us that we're not seeing at that time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting. So what was going on for you then? Like what was happening? Okay. So that was, yeah, that year was pretty much.

Like I would say probably if not the lowest, one of the lowest years of my life. was just unbelievably unwell. So, you know, our sons were four or five. It feels very strange now. Yeah. Which is, know, like this is a good sort of 10 years ago now and well actually more like Phoenix is turning 16 this year. don't know about Finn, yeah. um, so at that time, you know, Phoenix was about.

and we had just moved, I'd moved out from his dad. And I think, you we hadn't lived apart for that long. Maybe it was a couple of years. I we broke up. Yeah, I moved out from him when Phoenix was four. So this was sort of a year on from making that split, but we were still trying to be together. It wasn't really working, but we were still having a crack at it. And I was just really, really unwell. So.

Yeah, I moved into a place in Mulrumbah with my brother and his wife at the time and their three kids. And it was sort of like a split house in actually on River Street, funnily enough. So yeah, we lived there for a little while and I was just dealing with my health problems. And at the time I didn't know what was wrong. I knew that a lot was wrong, but I was going to the doctor, the GP and really I looked back and I was getting a bit of the old medical gas lighting.

Rick And Emily (08:47.5)

Yeah. You know, it was just always you're anxious. And I think this is something that does happen to women quite a lot is that they're sort of told that it's just anxiety or it's, know, if you've got depression or you've got this and you've got that and you know, ended up. how did that feel like being told that? I mean, I knew something was wrong, but I, I did second guess myself. I was just like, am I just, is this what it's like to just be mentally ill and not understand how to fix this?

you know, cause my symptoms were a little, but I just was convinced. was, I knew deep in my heart and my soul, this was physiological. And I was trying to tell the people around me, the problem was, is that the people around me didn't really sort of get it either. Like I remember my, my, one of my family members brought another family member over and they were asking me questions and I could see that they just all thought I was just nuts, you know? And he had a mental health background, this particular relative.

He actually worked in the emergency department at the Tweed Hospital for a long time. So I think they were all sort of like, what's going on with them? You know, I was bedridden for six months. I just couldn't, I couldn't get out of bed because I was awake all night just with these symptoms. I mean, I was going to hospital regularly, feeling like I was dying and I was a mess. I was a real mess. But that same year I actually, I moved out.

to a new place, I was working at Blues Fest at the time and I just, my health crashed so bad in the middle of the festival and I had to actually cancel my contract with them in middle of the festival and I never got asked back, unfortunately, even though I had a legitimate reason. So things were crashing down around me. But what ended up happening that same year was that I made this phone call this one day, I was living in Stokers Siding at the time and I'll never forget it. I got on the phone and I just.

I'd been through a lot of practitioners, I tried lots of different things, but I rang this number and it was for the health lodge in Byron Bay, which is a functional medicine, it's a practice with multi, what's the word? Modalities? Yeah, exactly, multi-different modalities. And I actually was lucky enough when I made this phone call to get hold of the head of the whole director of the entire business, Wren.

Rick And Emily (11:10.926)

who was also an atropath and she just answered the phone and I think I just kind of, I just blurted, she's like, you know, can you help me? You know, I'm like, I'm just, I'm a mess. This is, and she was just so calm and she was so beautiful. And she said, tell me what's happening, honey. And I just said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said, okay. She said, um, I specialize in complex cases like yours. I think I can help you. And I thought, okay, I've heard that before.

But yeah, there was a little bit of doubt, but she just sounded so confident. And I just thought, maybe this is the one, maybe this is the person who can help me. And look, to cut a long story short, it certainly wasn't an overnight process, but what the difference with Wren and with the health lodge was that every test that the GP had done on me came back normal, right? Which led them to say, you've got anxiety, you've got mental health issues. But when I went to Wren,

she ordered a whole bunch of tests. Every single one of them came back abnormal because she knew what to test for. And I was subsequently diagnosed with chronic inflammation from a house that had black mold. There was gluten intolerance, was, you name it. mean, there was sleep apnea. It was this whole cascade of different conditions that were layered and it took years to unravel. In some respects, I'm still unraveling it now.

But yeah, I can honestly say that I don't have any mental health issues. And yeah, I've managed to heal the vast majority of the issues that I had. And that's been the journey for the last 10 years really. It's just unraveling what was going on. I dug myself into a very deep hole physically. And the part of this that I'm curious about is what was some of the...

How do I phrase this?

Rick And Emily (13:16.088)

What were some of the major signposts of you getting better? what were the bits where you're like, I'm really like on the right track here. Like what were the things that you noticed were like, something's really changing here? Yeah, good question. well, I mean, the first milestone would have been that I was not bedridden anymore. You know, that I could actually kind of function.

Look, was such, it's hard for me to answer that question because the journey was so convoluted. I had a lot of setbacks along the way. It was kind of like, I sometimes feel like I would make three steps forward, two steps forward and three steps back. You know what I mean? So what I did find was that the symptoms that had sort of started stacking up over the years, gradually all of the symptoms were being restored. Right? So for instance,

one of the most severe symptoms I had at that time was insomnia. I just couldn't sleep. There was actually one instance where two weeks I could barely sleep. The whole valley emitted, put me out for 20 minutes and I'd be back up again. So the sleep deprivation was severe. And now I'm pretty much, apart from last night, I had six hours, right? But the vast majority of nights I sleep.

seven hours and I wake up rested and I sleep well. So it was that, that was a big milestone for me when I, when my sleep came back. a huge difference when you get it consistently. Oh man, massive. Through those processes, what did you learn about yourself? What did you discover about you as a human? Well, one of the things I discovered that was really important, probably one of the biggest lessons was that I'm actually a very hypersensitive little being.

You know, I'm like the princess and the pea. Right? If I was in a manner of speaking, you know, I'm that princess that could feel the pea under 20 mattresses as the old fairy tale kind of goes. But when I was younger, I grew up in a household of substance abuse and in a rock and roll kind of like muso late night gigs, singing rock and metal.

Rick And Emily (15:42.99)

kind of environment and also in the western suburbs of Sydney where there was a lot of crime and a lot of like crazy behaviour. So all the environment around me was like, you know, I had to be tough and I had to be things that I wasn't, you know, I wanted to be the one. to put a mask on that you weren't natural, is that right? Yeah, and you know, like I would go out all night and I would drink the Jack Daniels straight and I would like...

smoked the weed and I would take the pills and whatever else, know, for a long time as a professional DJ living in the UK. I mean, really when I went to the UK, I started actually, that's when things started to come together. I started actually going to counseling and addressing my substance abuse issues. But yeah, for a long time, you know, I was partying really, really hard with the best of them and giving people a run for their money. And really my body was telling me,

for a very long time, you need to stop this. You can't cope with this. You're not coping like everyone else. And I just didn't wanna listen because I didn't wanna be the odd one out. I didn't wanna be that, you know. Yeah, that's the thing I'm thinking about is like what you get from that. And it sounds like you got belonging. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, look, it's weird because, you know, I've never been someone who's afraid to go against the grain. I'm not afraid of that. In fact, I often go against the grain and I'm often.

the kind of the rebel and the person who's outspoken and I speak my truth and even if it's uncomfortable for people. sort of like that. I'm the kind of person who will hang back, kind of observe for a long time but then when the situation calls for it I will be brutal with my honesty if I feel like that's needed. So I'm not afraid of that but looking back maybe when I was younger I wasn't able to find that voice or maybe I found it in some ways and was aggressive about it in certain respects but

listening to my body wasn't my strong point. Yeah, yeah. I know for me, because I had a pretty wild 20s, probably not to the same category as that, but still pretty wild in my eyes. looking back now, what I wanted from that time, and I loved the next day, I loved the recovery, I loved the conversations and the connection that came from the next day, not so much the night and the party, like I did like to dance.

Rick And Emily (18:01.774)

But for me it was more about the depth of connection. And I've realised now that a lot of my 20s and lot of my substance abuse was driven out of a need for connection. And not to belong or fit in or any of that stuff. It was more just like, I just want to feel connected to you. It just like a yearning. I only realised that a couple of years ago.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think for me that that was probably part of it. And that was a big part of my tribal experience. And I was very connected to my tribe, you know, in the music space, in the music space, and even as a live musician, I was a live musician for a long time before I was a DJ. But yeah, that was a big part of it. But I also think for me, it was this kind of like magical experience a lot of the time, you know, it's like when you're high and you're out and about and you're experiencing music.

You know, like I'd go to gigs and just get lost in the music and lost in the experience. And yeah, it was, you know, I'd be up for anything. I mean, I'd go on wild adventures. I'd meet people and end up in crazy scenarios, you know, and, and, come home with all of these stories and all of these, you know, interesting sort of experiences that really shaped who I am. And I actually wrote a song about that. One of the last songs that I wrote with a band I was in, when Phoenix was

kind of pretty little actually was with my brother and a couple other people called Igloo. I wrote a song with Igloo and it was called Touch the Stars and it was really kind of all about just the fact that it couldn't have been any other way like that was the path. Part of me regrets it because of the hell that I went through trying to reclaim my health you know the money the time you know I could easily get lost in the regret. Touch the Stars is it?

Yeah, Touch the Stars. Yeah, I could probably find the lyrics, but it'd take me a minute. But yeah, the lyrics, was beautiful. I love those lyrics. It's probably my favourite lyrics that I've ever written. And I'll grab them and put them in the show notes. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. There was like one line that said a stormy maze of chases that I cannot describe and just this really kind of cool, yeah, descriptive wording and

Rick And Emily (20:24.14)

Yeah, it was really my way of kind of coming to terms with the fact that I'd done that. mean, in some respects, I don't blame myself because I was brought up to believe that that's what I should do. know, both my parents were very vehement in their advocacy of a drug induced lifestyle. know, they were all about that. And, you know, I remember my dad telling me when I was only a teenager still, he said one of his friends was coming to Sydney to visit and

could I show him around? said, yeah, sure. But you know, I've met this guy and I'm actually not doing drugs anymore. And you know, as long as that's okay. And he's like, well, don't tell him that. don't want, I don't want, you know, you to embarrass me. know, and maybe there was a little bit of tongue in cheek, but there was, but that was the norm. It was like, if you weren't part of, yeah. If like, if I deviated from that kind of.

family, modus operandi, was, you know, I was kind of betraying the tribe. I had to really dig deep and extricate myself from that kind of like, it was a huge part of my personality. And you mentioned going to the UK, did that give you the space from those, from those threads, from those hooks from the family to be able to evolve into yourself a bit more? So what happened was, was that my first husband, Daniel and I had just gotten married in 2000.

We got married in September 5th of 2000. And he and I, he taught me to DJ and we had a DJ duo connection thing and it was, we had a great musical connection, but there was still a lot of substance abuse within that, that friendship group and that experience. And on the 28th of September, we were on our honeymoon in the, in the North Far North Queensland. We were camping at the, it was up in the Daintree Rainforest and my mother,

died of a drug overdose. Yeah. Didn't sort of expect it because she had been worrying me for a while and she had, been some behaviour that had concerned me about a year or so before and I was sort of on tenterhooks worrying about her. And then she seemed to get better and I kind of, you know, the stress of it all. I just moved to the Gold Coast. I met amazing people. I met my first husband, Dan. We got married. It was a whirlwind. My mum came up for the wedding.

Rick And Emily (22:41.974)

went back to Sydney and then yeah on the honeymoon I find out that she's died of a drug overdose and that was just massive and yeah my whole life. we just pause there? Yeah. I feel like that's... It was pretty big. On your honeymoon you found out your mum passed away. Yeah. Yeah I did and it was and it was horrendous you know because her family didn't expect it they were all grieving really hard and some of them even directed their anger at my brother and I. Yeah right.

I don't know why really, but that's just what they did. so yeah, so that kind of that honeymoon kind of just like, yeah, that really fell apart. The marriage fell apart, put it that way. I was, know, we were spending our beautiful nest egg of cash that we'd been given by his parents to start our life together. We were spending it on a funeral and we were coming back and I was organizing a funeral and I was entrenched in that.

And then our marriage didn't survive it. But what happened was is that I decided to go to England anyway. I decided to go to London anyway. And I decided to go over there and get straight. And I always think it's funny because I won't lie. I didn't get fully straight when I went to London, but I tell you what, I started a process that ultimately led to me freeing myself from that. I started counselling over there for the first time and...

I was, you know, I greatly reduced my drug intake and although yeah, I had multiple kind of relapses. Ultimately that was the start of my recovery. Yeah. And yes, like you say, like the change of scenery and new people, I would go out in London and stay up all night sometimes and just drink water and, know, just, just enjoy music for music. Yeah. Cool.

Oh yeah, and actually just while we're on that topic, it's funny because it kind of leads into what, if you want to talk about the writing, but I went on this journey at the end of it. I went over there for two years and I met this guy. I already knew the guy from Australia, actually. He was a record label owner and I ended up working for him and I ended up sort of doing all these amazing things over there. Like just connected with the people that had been my heroes.

Rick And Emily (25:05.174)

and became their peers. was doing gigs with them and I was working for a record label and I was doing gigs in the Europe and it all just really magical stuff happened over there. And at the end of my two years there, I decided to come back to Australia but before I did, I organised myself like my own mini tour, I guess. I was by no means a famous DJ over there because I wasn't a producer, I was just a DJ.

but I had a residency at one of the most prestigious clubs in London and I had a hell of a lot of great contacts. So I was able to get some really good gigs and I did this incredible journey through Europe and I played a number of gigs. I played in Portugal and I played in Hungary. I played in Barcelona and yeah, a number of gigs. What was that like?

it was wild. Cause I was a vinyl DJ too. I carrying boxes. was carrying my vinyl with me everywhere and I was just on this adventure. And I met a whole bunch of people like the guy in Germany that booked a gig for me. I was just staying at his house on his couch, you and I was hanging out with all these Germans. didn't really even speak the language, we were jamming together and stuff and it was really fun. And yeah, I went on that journey and in the middle of that journey, I stopped, I went to Switzerland.

and I meditated and I served on this Vipassana course for two weeks at the Vipassana Center up in Switzerland. So it was this kind of like really interesting contrast. Yeah, I that's what I was thinking of. Yeah, where one minute I'm sort of doing these gigs and the next minute I'm meditating in this thing. But yeah, I look back at that journey and that was just like a real high point in my life, I think, where I overcame, you know,

think my mum's death really propelled me to push myself harder because I lost another friend as well to heroin. And those two deaths in my life have really pushed me because they were both amazing people. The second death was a musician, an amazing guy. And yeah, I look at those two people as my mother and this guy, Beau, as people who've pushed me to be the best version of myself.

Rick And Emily (27:19.882)

even though was painful. Yeah, this is really interesting. I've had a couple of conversations in the last two days around this.

Sometimes there's a real benefit of someone passing and it sounds like a terrible thing to say, but if we look at like there's a light and shadow to everything. I know when my dad passed, for me it really kicked my ass into what matters most for me. Now I was speaking to someone today and they had a, because it was a sickness, they had a...

person in their life that was important to them, that they got a deeper relationship because they knew they were gonna pass away. And that was their gift, the gift of the depth of their relationship changed because there was an ending. And I just, it's, the grief, death thing can be seen as such a, what's the word, like a real dramatic impact on our life. But there's such a beautiful.

rub off effect, it's such a beautiful thing that happens like for you, you honoured the adventurer and you honoured the person that like wants to go out and have these amazing experiences. It's like the gift that your mum gave you. Yeah, it was, you know, and it was like I wanted to honour her memory, I guess, by, you know, just going out there and just grabbing life by the horns. And my dad...

you know, he provided a similar thing, not in the same way. mean, both my parents died from substance abuse. One died suddenly, the other died slowly. So I got both. I got to see both happen. And with my dad, you know, he was like an unbelievably talented writer, phenomenal poet, you know, just so creative and so smart, but he was his own worst enemy, you know, and he just, you know, of belief and self-sabotage and substance abuse and everything else.

Rick And Emily (29:21.174)

He always wanted to publish his work and he never did. yeah, I guess him and his story inspired me too because it's like, I don't want to let that happen, but sometimes it's almost to the point of... To let which part happen? just like the waste of talent. The waste of talent, to not pursue creative projects because there's other things in the way.

And so I do that. mean, at the moment I'm doing it relentlessly. It's like, I'm working full time in a really busy, demanding corporate job. And then spending my time, I've got a side hustle where I work in the music industry, which I've done for most of my life. And then I'm writing my first book as well. And it's interesting because this year I'm going to turn 52 and my mum was 52 when she died.

So it kind of feels like it's all coming into like a full circle. Well, that's interesting. I think I mentioned before to you, before we got on, one of the reasons that I wanted to get you on is because I'm really inspired by people who speak their voice, that have a voice and are happy to put their words into the world. Because I understand the struggle that comes with that.

all the things that are associated with actually putting yourself out there. And when I'm not really big on social media, I had quite a few years off it and I've just sort of slowly started to come back. the last six months when I saw you and when you announced that you were writing a book and that you were gonna essentially document the journey and let everyone come along with you along social media, I'm like, we need to talk. I need to get you in here.

Thank you. Because I just find that inspiring and exactly what you're talking about is like I'm honoring this part of me and I'm making it happen. I'm not going to I'm not going to be caught by the self-sabotage or the stories or the the limitations I'm gonna actually make it happen and it fucking inspires me. Well, thank you very much because it's definitely a challenging journey sometimes and and just because I'm doing it doesn't mean I don't have imposter syndrome like

Rick And Emily (31:43.918)

I battle with that all the time and I think everybody does. In fact, I've never met anyone that doesn't although I actually probably have but I just don't think they admit it. Yeah, this is interesting. I love the idea of imposter syndrome as it's just a general theme to talk about. Yeah, it's an interesting one but yeah, mean, so you just got to get up and kind of do it and it's like I'm working with a coach at the moment, a mentor, it's a group coaching. She's not one to one or anything.

can't afford the one-to-one it's insanely expensive but the group coaching was expensive enough and she's very very good you know which is why it costs a lot of money but yeah she's all about you know just getting in there and doing it and sometimes you have to suck at something at first to understand it and and it's you know she's absolutely right because I've done a lot of social media over the years and I find social media a bit I found it challenging in the past for myself because

I'm a natural storyteller and I love telling stories, but I felt that as a, you know, as a music business coach and a marketing coach that, that, you know, I should be sort of like, you know, I guess giving advice. Yeah. It changed the way that you actually do things naturally. Yeah. So I would go in there and I'd give advice and I'd, you know, give people tips and you know, and that content and you know, I mean, people liked it, I guess. And I've got an audience and people respect me, I guess, but yeah, it certainly wasn't going viral or anything.

But anyway, since I've started up with the social media again, with the book journey and just getting on there and trying different things and being, you know, like I've done little dances and I've been a dick. This is me. I'm just like, whatever, like I'm doing it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, moving on next. know, yesterday I posted something and then I realised I left the T out of the word artist. So on Instagram it says, record labels be more, I don't know, something of art?

artists. And I'm like, and then I was agonizing about it for a second. I'm good. Cause the perfectionist in me is like, God damn it. I misspelt that thing. People are going to think I'm an idiot. I'm stupid. I'm like, and then I was just like, whatever. I don't care. I'm just, you know, I'm doing it. I'm putting it out. But anyway, yeah. Funnily enough, one of the posts that I did, um, was about three or three weeks ago now, I told a story and it was a personal story about this guy that I dated.

Rick And Emily (34:06.35)

a few years ago, this drummer guy who I've had an ongoing scenario with for years and let's not go there because that's a whole podcast in itself. But anyway, I wrote, I just put this little story up. Anyway, that post has gone viral and it's this post, it's resonating with musicians all over the world. It's about, he was a touring musician for 15 years and I was just.

observing, like writing my observations of the way that his long-term touring had shaped him as a person and the way he couldn't put down roots and the way he was, you know, living with in minimalism and that sort of thing. And it wasn't a criticism at all. was just like an interesting observation of the way it had shaped him and formed him into a particular type person. Anyway, last I checked this, this post has had like over a hundred thousand views and has been shared like hundreds of times and it's, you know, power story.

the power of stories. So now I kind of know, ah, okay, this is resonating and it's giving me, you know, an idea of like, at least now I've had an experience of something going a little bit viral. So I can understand what's resonating with people and why. Yeah, I think this podcast is my version of that. It's just stories. Tell me your story. Tell me your story about when we first met. Tell me your story about, you know, it's just, I think there's something deep in us that resonates or relates to different parts of other people's story.

Yeah. And stories, you know, have been there since the beginning of time, right? Like this is how people want to learn. They want to learn through story. Like I remember reading a book years ago called the five AM club. And I love that book. Robin Sharma. I thought you'd probably enjoy that book. It's a great book and I enjoyed it, but, I love the way the story part of it is what really grabbed me. You know, I all the little tips and everything and I, and I appreciate that. And that's why I read it, but

the story even though he's not probably the most amazing writer in terms of he's no Stephen King right but. Totally compelling story. But was compelling enough that it kept me engaged and it helped me to learn and that's why the book that I'm writing is like okay so the mentor back to the mentor her thing is like look

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you know, look in the space where you're doing your work. In my case, it's independent musicians, right? Helping them. And specifically, you know, I'm getting granular on the touring aspect of that. So, so her thing is look in that space and look at what's missing, right? And then ask people what they want. So I'm surveying my audience at the moment, doing a survey, ask them for what they want.

look at what's missing and then do that, give them what they want and do it really well in a way that no one else is doing it, right? So when I went digging and started doing some market research and I'm looking at all the people who've written books about music industry and to be brutally honest, the vast majority them are really freaking dull. know? Like, and I mean, you know, I don't want to criticize people because I'm not going to mention any names, but you know, I'm going to look at some of these people and they look, you know, very beige.

They look like lawyers or they look like business people. And I'm thinking, okay, well, maybe I can inject a bit of fun into this space. You know, and that's when I came up with the Emily rocket and it kind of, you know, if I'm, if I'm really honest, it's inspired by that guy. And I'm certainly not going to be swearing and being like this guy, but that's what I reckon. I love that guy. Have you seen that's what I reckon? Okay. So this guy, he's got a YouTube channel and he's

He's like a metal guy. And really, no, I do know it. Yes. Gotcha. Yeah. And metal is my roots. Right? Like I come from that, even though I've done the whole DJ thing and I love folk and I love country and I love everything. I love music. I'm just obsessed with music, this guy, I reckon he's the fuller metal guy and he's like, F this and F that. he's, you know, he's, he's really all about, you know, natural food and good cooking, but he does it in a way that people can to. It's so funny.

And then when I look at his books in the, know, like I always notice his books when I go into Kmart or one of those shops and they're like bright, they're like bright pink or they're bright yellow or they're bright green. And I'm just like, yeah, and that's what I reckon. You're the fricking man. I love that guy. You know, I want to, I want to watch his videos cause they make me laugh and he's just funny and fun. And yeah. he's not trying to be anyone else other than himself. Exactly right. Yeah. So like, yeah. And I realized that maybe over the years,

Rick And Emily (38:39.778)

I wasn't really being authentic to myself because when I'm hanging out with my friends, I'm being a dick. I'm cracking jokes. I'm, you know, sarcastic and cynical as You get to be this and all that shit. Yeah. sorry. Now I've turned on the swear tab. It's all right. We swear the fuck in the podcast. Okay. Perfect. Excellent. yeah. So I'm being that person, but then I'm trying to be all like, okay, well, I suppose if people are going to take me seriously, then I suppose I should be all formal and stuff, you know, and that's the disconnect over the years.

I'm smiling. I'm smiling a lot. So yeah, I think stepping into the, not that I'm shutting down Mojo Bullit, which is my business that I've had for a long time and maybe that will naturally kind of just fall away. I don't know yet, it's just sitting there. But you know, stepping into Emily Rocket, it's like, okay, I'm stepping into this space as an author to be. I'm not the author yet, but I'm...

The second I'm published, then I'm the author. And yeah, and that's what I'm all about. I'm just stepping into my, I guess, identity as a writer and as someone that's a little bit more fun and a little bit more reverent. It's like I had the dream about this 10 years ago. You did, you predicted it. a rock star. Emily Rocket. You totally predicted this. Yeah, that's pretty funny. That's actually really funny.

No, the reason I was smiling when you were talking, which doesn't go that well on audio, but I called this thing humaning for a reason. It's like, we get to be human. We get to be ourselves and it's okay. And it's probably preferred than trying to be someone we're not. And I just, I do see that in you. And I see that come out in your writing and the way you communicate online and...

you're in there, the real Amy's in there and she comes out and I just, that's the bit that inspires me is like, it's so easy to fall into the trap of what have I got to do to get the thing? I've got to follow the other people that did their thing and they got their thing and I've got to do my version of that. But we can lose ourselves in that. I've lost myself in that. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I was always feeling like I needed to be professional, you know, like there's...

Rick And Emily (41:04.428)

because I am an outlier in the music industry. That's the reality. There's a lot of people in the industry space that are running really awesome businesses and they're big businesses. And I think my imposter syndrome centers around the fact that I've worked for big labels before.

I worked for a small label in the UK, but I worked for a big publishing company back in the day and I've worked on some really big events like Blues Fest and Splendour and things like that. And I've been mentoring artists for a really long time and working in that space for a really long time. But because of my health issues, because of my nuclear divorce and single parenting while wrangling health problems, all of that stuff, I haven't really been able to reach my potential.

And my business has stayed really small and that's okay because I know I've still done a good job. And I've managed bands and I've coached artists who are on the frontline, really artists that really need the help that often can't afford or get assistance from a bigger company. I've worked in that space in the trenches and it was needed. It was an important service, but my business has stayed really small as a result. And I've been able to kind of just tick along with this little business and

Yeah, I guess maybe a part of me was thinking, well, maybe I'm not respected for that. I often get asked over the years to do stuff for free, like I've judged on awards and I've- Is that, to interrupt. No, you're all right. Is that part of what you perceive as the imposter? Does that contribute to that imposter syndrome? Yeah, just that feeling that, I guess, yeah, I feel like-

I don't know, maybe I just get a little bit of sometimes, you know, there's, think there's a lot of latent and I'm not saying it's overt because I don't think people are necessarily doing it on purpose. But I think there's latent sort of isms in the, the industry, like there's sexism and there's ageism and there's, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. And so, yeah, I did, you know, I used to be asked to do a lot of stuff and I, you know, it was very easy to get gigs.

Rick And Emily (43:18.048)

and jobs when I was much younger, but you know, like working even as a female DJ in the Sydney scene, that was brutal. You know, it was really hard to get gigs and it was a boys club and it was like... Can I ask a question? Because I find it interesting how the imposter can either hold us back or we can work with it and move forward. Like how prevalent is that voice of the imposter? Like how strong is it?

Look, I mean, I think I've learned to just sit with it. And over the years, you know, I think I mean, I've proved to myself at the least, you know, that what the offering that I have and what I give is valuable and worthwhile, you know, and I've got a lot of testimonials on my website to prove that I guess if I need to.

Um, do you need proof of that? No, that's the thing. And so I've learned to just kind of sit with it because, know, like, mean, yeah, I was an impo. I felt like an imposter even back, you know, I remember doing massive gigs over in the UK and I remember being interviewed for MTV in Europe. And I remember signing autographs to little Hungarian breakbeat fans, you know, and I just, and that kind of tickled me pink, but a part of me is thinking.

why do they care about this? Why do they care about me? I'm not that person. not... I don't know. I think in the music space, unless you're Beyonce, unless you're selling out stadiums like Taylor Swift, you haven't made it. I've had friends say, yeah, I feel sorry for X-Band. They've never really made it, did they? And then I go, you know what? Maybe they haven't made it in the sense that they're not a household name, but they've been playing music.

full time for the last 20 years. They've bought a house from that revenue. They're doing what they love. Like, is that making it? Yeah. It's following your heart and being aligned with what you do and following your passion making it. That's right. And I remember my brother used to say to my brother and I made music together for a long time and he's an amazing musician. He used to say to me that, you know, when we were kids, we wanted to make it, you know, back then it was like we were into glam metal, hair metal. were like, it was the dream of being signed to a label and you know,

Rick And Emily (45:41.302)

riding off into the sunset in your own private jet or whatever. Obviously that never eventuated. But yeah, my brother, I remember when he came to that crossroads where he kind of realized that we were past it that was never gonna happen and whatever. But he said, you know what, over the years, like my relationship to music is so personal. And I really feel that if I am sitting in a room and I've just played the most beautiful love song that I wrote to one person and they're crying because they're so moved by that.

That's making it. Yeah, you've made it. You know, so there's a lot of, yeah. Look, it's a massive conversation and I have mixed feelings. know, the music industry is my tribe. Like I love the people I work with. I love the people who put on the awards. I love the people who run the labels. I love the musicians who are out there every day, you know, in the trenches doing gigs for sometimes not a lot of money and, know, without the...

security of a regular job. It's an incredible industry. There's so many amazing people. I just can't imagine my life without it. But you know, but there's yeah. It's like anything. There's light and shade. Yeah, but I also hear hectic 10 years of health stuff, raising a son by yourself, know, saving up to buy a house. Like I hear all these things that are like, that have to happen.

or that you want them to happen because they're important to you and you're in the music industry at the same time. So it's like you've got to run two lives essentially. So I just think that should be acknowledged. It's a tough gig. Yeah, it is a tough gig. I think what I've come to realise is that I have an important voice in this industry because I'm not afraid to ask difficult questions.

The tagline that I've come up with for Emily rocket is let's talk about music. Yeah for my DJing it's let's do something. Let's dance. Let's talk about music. But yeah, it's always let's something and and I'm talking about all kinds of things, you know, I'm talking about There's a comment on my Instagram right now that is in the back of my mind I've got to write back to because I asked this question about chapel Rowan. Yeah, I saw that today. Yeah, she put up a question about

Rick And Emily (48:06.38)

you know, should record labels in America, obviously they don't have health insurance, right? Unless they've got employment. So shouldn't record labels step in and give them security and health insurance and whatever. And I posed that question too. And a guy from the music industry in Sydney said, Hey, should they be, should they be putting that in the advance? And it really got me thinking, I was like, well, should they, or should it be a completely different kind of contract altogether? Like I'm posing questions that I don't necessarily even have the answers to. But I think

Yeah, it's important to just ask questions and to sort of think about different ways of doing things because there's a lot in the music industry that's not working. You know, I've watched musicians go from being able to make a lot of money from CDs and from sales of music to really nothing. And, you know, it's a big conversation. mean, I'm not under any illusions that I can go in and shake up the space and change really the streaming culture. But, but, but I think someone, people should be asking more questions. Yeah. Yeah. Nice.

This is making me think about your book and I've got kind of a double-headed question. One is, what do you personally want to get by writing this book? And the other is, what do you want the world to get from reading this book? Yeah, good question. Good question. Thank you for asking. So I think on one hand, I just want to put something out for me personally.

I do want to put a creative work out, you know, because I think I've done a hell of a lot of creative work over the years. I've done a lot of music and I've done a lot of DJing and I've done, you know, whatever. Um, but something that kind of is my story. The book's like a legacy, isn't it? It's like it's real. Yeah. And the thing about the book that I haven't actually explained to you, what it, what I guess the point of difference is, is that this book is all about story. Cool. So even though it's called louder than life.

And it's for touring musicians. It's Louder Than Life, the touring musician's handbook. I'm pretty settled on that title now. Anyway, what I've done is I've gone to all my friends, a lot of my friends in the music industry who are professional touring musicians. And I've got some great ones. I've got Troy Cazadeli, I've got musicians from Amy Shark and from John Butler Trio and from really well-known artists. Casey Barnes, yeah, some amazing artists. Well, a musician from Casey's band.

Rick And Emily (50:34.542)

Tijuana Cartel, et cetera, et cetera. And I've asked them five questions and they've all written back to me these answers. And one of the questions I asked was what was the funniest or most bizarre thing that happened to you on tour? And I've just got some amazing answers, right? And it's just so funny, like just to give you a quick snippet, like one of the answers I got was that this one guy had done a gig, he had got a nosebleed in the middle of the gig and had to do the rest of gig with a tampon stuck in his nose.

And then another one that just came back this week was that the funniest, most bizarre thing that happened to them was that they had fire twirlers in their entire stage caught on fire. So there's some really funny, cool stories, right? And then simultaneously in the book, I'll be talking about my story of going over to England, the UK and doing my big DJ tour, which was like a reckoning really after my mother's death and all of that. So I'm telling a story.

that has been burning inside me, wanting to be told for a long time. And then at the same time, I'm using that as a way to educate the musicians on how to get their own tour off the ground. Yeah, right. So I guess I've answered the question. it's bit of both. It's a bit of both. I mean, always my passion has been to empower and help independent artists because it's a tough gig, right? Yeah.

And all my most beloved people around me, some of the most beloved friends I have and have had are frustrated musicians who never really got their thing fully off the ground for whatever reason, or they have. I've got a lot of really successful musician friends, but I guess it's just a really tough gig and a lot of people are confused about it. And so yeah, I wanna educate and inspire and help.

those amazing people who are compelled to share their creative work with the world. And what I hear you get from that is the creative satisfaction of putting, getting your story out and having a piece of work that's out in the world that's there forever, essentially, isn't it? Well, the other funny thing about this, Rick, is that I am...

Rick And Emily (52:53.472)

So I said to my son, because obviously losing both my parents so tragically, I think that was partly, and then my friend, Beau, I lost him tragically as well. I think partly that was what inspired me to get into the funeral industry during the pandemic. And I spent four years in that industry, right? Managing a funeral home and in the mortuary and being an arranger and conductor. Anyway, as a result, I've done a lot of funeral admin. And I said to my son, said, Phoenix, you're gonna be the one filling out my...

my registration of death when you do the arrangement at my, you know, to organise my funeral. Hopefully that's not for a long time, but I said, you're going to be the guy doing it because you're my only son. And I said, when it comes to the part where it says, what is your occupation? I said, up until now, it's probably been so hard for you because I've been so many things. You could put funeral industry or you could put hospitality or you could put DJ or what blah, blah. But I said, as soon as that book's out.

You're to put author. Nice. So yeah, so partly there's that little box that I want to take, know, make my dad, my, my talented writer father proud and yeah, and all of that. feels important. It does. You know, he lost his work and he never reached that dream. And yeah, it's not that I need to do it for him. It's for me, but I mean, he inspired me with the love for the written word. It's connected, isn't it?

And you know, the other thing too is like, and we're probably running over a long time now, but there's one thing I just wanted to say is that, one lesson I learned from my father, he was a wordsmith, as I said, and a writer, right? But he was also an angry drunk. And I inherited the talent of writing from him and I inherited the curse of like, when I'm angry, I can use words.

to hurt people because I'm very observant of people's weaknesses. And in the past, the version of me that wasn't as healed as I am now could be quite cruel. You know, when I was The double side of the wordsmith. Yeah, when I felt cornered, when I felt hurt, when I felt angry, I could be cruel. That's just being honest. That's not the biggest part of me at all. It's a small part of me, but it does exist if I'm really honest. And I think doing something...

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you know, that's really productive and helpful with the written word. This book is my way of, I guess, healing and atoning for that part of me, you know, making it a positive thing and trying to turn that around. Cause that's probably the biggest lesson in my life in some ways is to, is to learn how to only ever use my word for good. Well said. It's really beautiful. Thank you. Yeah.

Yes, it's a lesson, it's just a journey that I have to take. It's also nice to, like in my work that I do with people, it's like having acceptance of our parts is a big step in the journey and it sounds like you've accepted that part of you even though you may not love it or like it even, but there's a part of you that's there that's done that in the past and got something from it and you know.

it's really nice to want to balance that calmer out and you know put some beauty in the world to balance out the other side. thank you. Yeah, it's an important thing to do. I mean I'm not proud of that aspect of me and you know it would be easy to blame my dad for that because he was an angry drunk and held a lot of abuse around and you know that was not pleasant for me and I've sort of like I think taken it on to kind of as a coping strategy.

but yeah, I regret some of the things I've written and said to people. They were pretty shitty to me, but it doesn't excuse it. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm sorry if you're listening. I got two questions for you. Yeah. That'll kind of get us there. One is,

What's going to get in the way? And I don't want, what part of you is going to get in the way is the question of writing this book.

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Well, I've almost finished the first draft. Congratulations. So that part of me, the part of me of just getting it done. Yeah, the workhorse. I've already overcome that guy. Yeah. That girl, whatever hell. What could get in the way is my perfectionistic tendencies to want to edit, edit, edit. And that's again, my dad coming through, he was like, he would edit and edit and edit. He spent, you know, my entire childhood editing.

my dad was unavailable because he was editing and I've given myself a, so I've kind of put the pressure on it and I've booked it. Well, I'm very close to confirming a launch date and it's probably a real reckless thing to do really. Cause I haven't finished the book and I'm no, you know, if you know yourself that you work to a deadline and you know, it could be a really wise thing as well. think it's just kind of pushing me outside my comfort zone. So I'm still.

into minds about because I haven't fully locked it in yet. I'm like, am I just hurting myself and putting too much pressure on myself? Cause I want to take care of myself physically. You know, I have my health, my health is still not perfect and you know, I need to rest and care for myself. But at the same time, I have to push past that inner critic. I'm thinking of my friend Ash at the moment cause he's all about overcoming the inner critic. So yeah, the inner critic is definitely something and just time, right? Just pure and simple like.

time constraints because I do have them. They're not, they're not my imagination. They're real. work. This full-time gig. This is not my full-time gig. I'm working, I'm parenting, I'm, you know, trying to, you know, have a life as well. So yeah, just that. Cool. And it sounds like you, you know those parts pretty well. So yeah. Very familiar. Yeah.

Yeah, they're not going to sneak up on you. And you know what? The other one I've just realized is my self-sabotage because I promised myself I wasn't going to start dating again. I've been single eight years and I wasn't going to start dating again until after the book was out. But then I just randomly little self-sabotage me jumped on fricking bumble and organ out. I've got three dates this week. Oh, three in one week. And then I think if I like any of them, I'm going to have to say, I really like you, but.

Rick And Emily (59:44.152)

This might have to wait. Well, that's interesting, isn't it? The podcast just restarted. I hope they're not all listening, but I'm transparent. know, I'm not telling anyone any fibs, but. why, what do you classify that as self-sabotage? Just because, you know, I've gone eight years, right? Without needing to have a date. look, I have dated in that time. Don't get me wrong, but I haven't had a relationship.

I've had a relationship but it wasn't official. Yeah. So do you see this action of like getting back on and doing the thing? Why now? As a bit of a deflection from It could have waited. Let's be honest. Yeah, cool. If I've waited this long, why couldn't it have waited? Interesting. Four months. Yeah. So yeah, I think, you know, I'm probably going to have to pull back from that. Although I really do like. Sorry guys or girls, whatever. guys. I'm going to go on the dates. Yeah. But yeah, it's definitely.

Look, if it's meant to be, I'm sure they'll hang in there and wait. And kind of fun to just laugh at that behaviour because it's just like, why now? Yeah, like you say, we laugh at ourselves, right? And I'm laughing at myself going, come on. Yeah. And there's a little part in you that just wants some adventure. You know, this is a big part of your story. Yeah. And I'm also trying, like, to be honest, without going down another rabbit hole, but to be honest, I'm trying to move past...

attachment to this unavailable frickin drummer that I you know that frickin drummer is like the curse of my existence yeah I've still had an attachment to him and I just need to get out of my system but yeah maybe I can do that without dating I don't know anyway to be continued to be continued but what was the other question because you asked me both

No, no, I've got another question for you. I like to finish the podcast on and yours is going to be pretty obvious, I think, but it could be, you know, left field. What excites you right now? Like what, what's something in your life or something that's happening in the immediate future? It's just like really fucking excites you that like, when you think about it, you're like, yeah, what's that for you right now? Well, I'll tell you what it is because

Rick And Emily (01:02:09.876)

Obviously we've talked about the book. The book is the obvious thing. I want to get that out and there's going to be a launch at my favorite venue, Moe's Desert Clubhouse on the Gold Coast, know, bringing all my, I love collaboration. love bringing people together. I love that all that. Right. So that's yes, a very obvious one. And I'm definitely looking forward to that, but I have made a promise to myself because I am someone that's constantly looking for the next thing. As soon as I've done something, I'm like, right, what next? And I'm always striving higher and higher and higher.

But I've made a commitment to myself that once the book is out, apart from the work that I obviously need to do on promoting the book, I want to spend the second half of the year just working on some projects for my own self, which is just in my home. know, just spending time pottering in my garden. And I've got a lot of stuff like I want to do these scrapbooks for my son, which are like

I've got lots of newspaper articles. I've got so many newspaper articles of various projects I've done throughout my entire life. Family history stuff about my dad. I've got like gig flyers, every gig I ever did in the UK, blah, blah. I want to put it all together and just have these folders that I can give to him to inherit and say, look, this is your roots. This is where you came from, you know, and in the process, hopefully discard a whole lot of unnecessary stuff. So

That project is something that's really close to my heart and it's something I've been wanting to do for a long time but I haven't given myself the space all the time. Yeah, and it's nice to know that you can bookmark that for, when this is done, I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna honour that process of what I wanna do with that. I think that's really important. Yeah, and look, it's time with my son as well but I always carve out time with my son. this is why I don't have really time for anything else because...

I do make time to spend with him and he's so important to me. I love him so much and being a mum is the most important thing in my life. So, yeah. I see that. Cool. I'm going to answer that question as well. Yeah. I'm excited that there's lots of groups in my life at the moment, lots of community. So Men's Circle started back this weekend. I'm going out to Brisbane. There's

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collection of about 30 of us in a year. That's all group work and then the weekend after that Joe and I are down in Melbourne we've got a program that we run in Melbourne and we have group there so I'm excited about being surrounded by humans. that sounds excellent. This month especially there's a lot of it. Have you ever just random question but have you do you know of the path of love? to love or the path of love? Nope.

Anyway, I just thought I'd ask, cause I've got another friend who's a life coach, Ash, and he talks about this group down in Sydney. I have heard of it. I've got a friend who worked, do they do like, events? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. thought maybe that was what you No, no, different, quite different, but still the, the, the power of a group, you know, it's like even last night in circle. Yeah. Last night, just some men reflecting that they're sitting here.

listening to others speak and then all of their stories are unfolding. And it's just, it's simple, but it's really powerful. And I just, just, I'm stoked that I get to be a part of it. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think sometimes, you know, humans for better or worse, like sometimes I know a lot of people who were just like humans, me animals any day, you know? And yes, humans can be extremely challenging and they bring up all our deepest wounds and all that kind of stuff. They're hard work.

But at the same time, you know, all the most exciting, fun, magical experiences I've had in my life have involved humans. Connection's important. It's the light and shade, isn't it? Yeah. That's great that you're having those experiences. I'm glad that, you know, I thank you for bringing me on this podcast. It's amazing that you are interested in people's stories. I just find it like. Wildly interesting, you know.

And like I had no idea where this was gonna go today. So that part of it's just interesting to me. And I feel like I get to know a part of you that I didn't know before today. We definitely dug pretty deep today actually. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. was really good. Really good. So I'm gonna stick all your contact stuff into the show notes. So I would definitely recommend following him on Instagram and Facebook.

Rick And Emily (01:07:00.076)

Yeah. Emily rocket is my Instagram, but rocket is spelled with an it. So like rock it. Emily rock it. Just like in the dream. That's on Instagram and then on Facebook, it's Emily rocket music. Cool. Yeah. I'll throw that in the show notes. I'll be a direct link. Other than that, good fucking luck with the rest of the book. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for having me, Rick. It's great to chat. Thanks,